Of Arms and the Law

Navigation
About Me
Contact Me
Archives
XML Feed
Home


Law Review Articles
Firearm Owner's Protection Act
Armed Citizens, Citizen Armies
2nd Amendment & Historiography
The Lecture Notes of St. George Tucker
Original Popular Understanding of the 14th Amendment
Originalism and its Tools


2nd Amendment Discussions

1982 Senate Judiciary Comm. Report
2004 Dept of Justice Report
US v. Emerson (5th Cir. 2001)

Click here to join the NRA (or renew your membership) online! Special discount: annual membership $25 (reg. $35) for a great magazine and benefits.

Recommended Websites
Ammo.com, deals on ammunition
Scopesfield: rifle scope guide
Ohioans for Concealed Carry
Clean Up ATF (heartburn for headquarters)
Concealed Carry Today
Knives Infinity, blades of all types
Buckeye Firearms Association
NFA Owners' Association
Leatherman Multi-tools And Knives
The Nuge Board
Dave Kopel
Steve Halbrook
Gunblog community
Dave Hardy
Bardwell's NFA Page
2nd Amendment Documentary
Clayton Cramer
Constitutional Classics
Law Reviews
NRA news online
Sporting Outdoors blog
Blogroll
Instapundit
Upland Feathers
Instapunk
Volokh Conspiracy
Alphecca
Gun Rights
Gun Trust Lawyer NFA blog
The Big Bore Chronicles
Good for the Country
Knife Rights.org
Geeks with Guns
Hugh Hewitt
How Appealing
Moorewatch
Moorelies
The Price of Liberty
Search
Email Subscription
Enter your email address:

Delivered by FeedBurner

 

Credits
Powered by Movable Type 6.8.8
Site Design by Sekimori

« DC pays $5.1 million in 2A class action | Main | Win in the 9th Circuit »

Off topic but interesting

Posted by David Hardy · 11 September 2023 04:25 PM

Some contend that section 3 of the 14th Amendment, which bars former insurrectionists from public office, bars Donald Trump, and there is major legal debate on the issue.

Attorney Don Kilmer points out that §3 also allows Congress to remove that bar by a 2/3 vote, and in 1872 Congress did so as to all but a handful of offices, not including the presidency. 17 Stat. 142.

6 Comments | Leave a comment

Flight-ER-Doc | September 12, 2023 9:13 AM | Reply

Well, that's that, then.

richard | September 12, 2023 4:08 PM | Reply

why do you lawyers write so confusingly? I can follow most things but this seems like a brain teaser...

The way I read it, the prohibition semi-ambiguously applied to the president in the first place. It's covered by the ...hold any office... part but the swearing an oath part doesn't quite fit (officer means military officer) or does it - does executive officer of any state include the US or just the individual states?

As to the removal, it would appear that if it did apply to the president since it isn't specifically excepted in the list. Unless head of department could be somehow equated to the president?

Signed,
Head-scratching Harry

Dave D. | September 13, 2023 7:49 AM | Reply

…BINGO !! And that’s why I check this site every day. Because Dave brings facts and legal decisions to light that no other website does.
..A Hardy Thankyou. You’ve made my day.

FW | September 13, 2023 9:04 AM | Reply

All law students are required to take 4 yrs of ambiguity in law school so they learn to write laws so that the law can be confusing.

john B | September 13, 2023 1:29 PM | Reply

What about Fitzhugh Lee, Joe wheeler, and Thomas Rosser during the war with spain? Where they individually approved or is there another general amnesty that has not been found yet?

The Wretched Dog | September 15, 2023 7:56 PM | Reply

14th Amendment, Section 3:
"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."

Read this very carefully - it does not apply to the President, nor - arguably - to the Vice President. Look at the hierarchy of offices listed and note that positions of President and Vice President are not stipulated. The President is not "an officer of the united States" - he is the President and holds all executive power. All "officers of the united States" (civil and military - basically, anyone requiring senate confirmation) serve to implement the President's authority.

Besides which, Section 3 is not self-enforcing. Mr. Trump has not been indicted for sedition or treason, much less convicted.

TWD

Leave a comment