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« Self defense in the grand style | Main | He IS "The One" »

Forest fire danger from muzzleloaders?

Posted by David Hardy · 9 May 2009 05:27 PM

The Forest Service has a presolicitation, forest-fire related notice out for "Multi-variable analysis on the probability and prediction of fire ignitions from muzzle loaded guns".

During the Civil War, musketry did start fires at the Wilderness and a few other fights. But (1) Civil War muskets were fed via paper cartridge, and some soldiers tended to ram the paper in, too, which meant burning paper fragments were shot off and (2) the battles were mostly fought in the spring and summer, whereas deer hunting takes place in the fall and winter. It's not easy to start a forest fire after a snowfall.

Hat tip to Alan Korwin...

9 Comments | Leave a comment

Chuck | May 9, 2009 6:12 PM | Reply

Has this been a problem that I had not heard about? Much like bayonet lugs on rifles prior to 1994.

SPQR | May 9, 2009 6:28 PM | Reply

These kind of things will show up as the government drones look for more ways to restrict hunters from using public lands. Just as we see the "fear" of lead contamination being used to justify overturning the rule allowing concealed carry in parks.

CDR D | May 9, 2009 7:05 PM | Reply

Muzzle-loaders should be a concern in this regard. I know first hand that it is possible to inadvertently start a brush fire with the still smoldering residue which is often expelled after a shot.

It happened to me at a local shooting range. I was using a .50 "Hawken type" T/C. Conditions at the time were quite dry, and after a shot, the dry brown grass in front of the bench began to burn. The rangemaster called a cease fire, came out and grabbed the nearby hose and doused it in short order. It didn't amount to much, but he said, "it happens fairly often, don't worry about it."

But I'd worry about it out in the woods when it is particularly dry, but not when conditions are damp.

wrangler5 | May 9, 2009 8:33 PM | Reply

Despite CDR D's experience, I'll believe the government is concerned about fire and not gun restriction when they limit the regulation's applicability to groups of more than 500 hunters.

Hank Archer | May 10, 2009 8:49 AM | Reply

I was a Forest Service fire investigator for more than 25 years. I'm also a "radical" gun rights supporter. I think that there is a pretty good chance, in certain places and seasons, of fires being started this way. I think it is reasonable too look at it as a potential problem.

That said -- I've never heard of a fire started this way (several by tracer ammo though). However muzzleloaders are a lot more popular now than when I was still working.

ben | May 11, 2009 12:47 AM | Reply

That said -- I've never heard of a fire started this way (several by tracer ammo though).

I've done a few dozen ranges with tracers in Louisiana and Kentucky climates, and unless it was very cold or very wet we would always have a few fires.

But a tracer is a chunk of white hot metal, and we were firing thousands of rounds of .50 cal or 7.62. I don't think it really compares to muzzle-loaders.

I think it is reasonable to look at it as a potential problem.

It seems like it's a small risk that could be magnified by thousands of people doing it and seasonal conditions.

But if I were someone trying to prevent fires, and given that I've got an audience with a highly limited attention span, I just wouldn't bother with this because it's so miniscule compared to campfires and smoking. And in terms of firearms safety, it's not on the radar with things like accidentally shooting a person.

This doesn't seem like a bureaucrat trying to steal gun rights. It seems like someone who doesn't understand the principle of triage.

Kristopher | May 11, 2009 2:55 PM | Reply

I'm a competitive muzzle-loader shooter and re-enactor.

This is easy to fix .. forbid dry or oil patches during high fire danger periods.

Wet patches and plastic sabots are not going to start fires ... a dry cloth, oiled cloth, or paper patch can.

Kristopher | May 11, 2009 3:01 PM | Reply

One other note ... the synopsis says that this was an example of past work.

Methinks a FOIA demand is in order ... I'd like to see the results, and any in-office memos about the results.

Tom | May 14, 2009 11:00 PM | Reply

Strange, first they claim that the 2nd should be limited to those types of weapons, now they're looking for ways to make sure you can't shoot them.

unpossible!

Perhaps this is just one of those jobs that will be created by the Obamulus that was supposed to save or create all them new jobs?

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