Not again, again

...I'd say that playing the race card based only on suspicion you find " Hard to escape " IS lightly playing it. The only fact you've presented is the race of the arrestee, not his conduct, his statements, the situation, or the race of the police officer or his supervisor. Pretty thin soup to claim that the guy was arrested ONLY 'CAUSE HE'S BLACK, which is what playing the race card means. Since you wouldn't accept this conclusion from a witness in court without questioning him further, why do you allege it without delving further into what happened ? This is the kind of cheap charge the lefty news media does. You are supposed to be better than this.

ok dave, three arrests in a row, and you'd look to... what?

his income?

voicing your suspicion is not "playing the race card." bringing up evidence that the arresting officer used racial slurs while arresting him each time, that would be playing the race card.

there's absolutely no causality established by pointing it out, yet, by calling to light the correlation in facts one would have diluted the issue at hand: the man is being arrested illegally.

...Perhaps I was not specific enough, Jon. Dave Hardy, a representative of the conservative 2nd amendment community, isn't supposed to be using innuendo to slime the government. He is supposed to base his deductions on provable and convincing facts, not suppositions induced by his own prejudices. This is important because he represents ME, as a gunowner, and his credability is essential to his mission : fighting gun control.
...You Jon, can make up whatever reason you wish, to explain Mr. Moores arrest. You don't represent me whatsoever. Have at it.

Mr. Dudley,

Mr. Hardy has made other blog entries about this individual before. I'd conclude that Mr. Hardy expressed his personal opinion based on the fact he's somewhat familiar with the history of Danladi Moore's arrests.

Just because he didn't allude to his other knowledge in the post you responded to doesn't mean he doesn't have that knowledge. In fact, in the past, Mr. Hardy has linked to other news stories which have included the race of the arrestee, his conduct, his statements, the situation, and the race of the police officer(s).

Also, Mr. Hardy did not say it was "Hard to escape" the conclusion race was an issue--he said it was "hard to escape the suspicion" that race is an issue. Those are horses of different colors entirely.

Dave,

Based on the fact that the VCDL held a dinner in support of the gentleman it's reasonable to assume that he is a typical law-abiding gun owner who happens to prefer OC.

While I'm sure the VCDL would offer some support to someone who's a total jerk, everything I know about the organization indicates that it would be tepid at best - more support of the rights involved than the person.

Therefore, since they showed strong support for this individual the odds are good that he is someone that we (including Mr. Hardy) would consider to be of 'good character'.

Which leaves only two things as apparent triggers for his repeated arrests:
1) The fact that he carries openly
2) Something intrinsic to him that makes the public / police think he should be arrested for doing so.

Since he's not alone in his choice of open carry trigger number 2 must be coming into play in this case. In looking at what that 'personal' factor might be the fact that he's a minority has to be considered. Not declaimed, just considered, as Mr. Hardy has done.

If you read the various accounts of the incident, he was in the company of several other WHITE VCDL members, all carrying, none of whom were cuffed or arrested. He was the only one.

I have heard this of the Norfolk PD before. I will not lightly play the race card, but there is a pretty plain and disturbing trend there.

Given that the Norfolk PD has repeatedly violated and continues to violate Virgina law, arresting citizens for peacefully engaging in entirely lawful behavior, I feel that the description of Mr Hardy's statements as "sliming the government" as a bit silly. It's somewhat akin to criticizing someone for speculating that Stalin might have been anti-semitic.

..Y'all can make up which ever narratives console and comfort you. Mr. Hardy, to whom I addressed my comment, not you, is a trained critical thinker. He knows that every pancake has two sides, something you all don't want to face. Apparently none of you ever made an arrest or wrote an arrest report. You can't put " black with an attitude " in the charge line. You have to cite a specific code section and the elements of the offense must be described in the arrest report. That doesn't make Mr. Moore guilty, only a court can do that, but I have yet to read any account but that of partisans on one side of the issue; Mr. Moores side.
..And yes, claiming an arrest was based on a persons race without evidence thereof is sliming them. Not just when Big Haired Al does it, but when you do it. If the officer(s) did this, they committed felonies and should be tried, convicted and imprisoned. If you say they did it without proof, you have a dishonest character.

Dave, go read the accounts on OCO and stop being a prick. The citation for this specific event was "trespass," though the location of the arrest was public property. His white friend behaved in the same manner as Dan, but was let go with no arrest or citation. You're not being critical, you're being apologetic about these officers' behavior. Were you not a hack, your response would have been something more like this:

Dave, while I agree that something here smells fishy, especially with the alleged history of racism in NPD, I would point to the fact that as a recent litigation award recipient, Mr. Moore most likely has a bigger "target" label on his back than "black man with a gun."

...Retake that reading comprehension class, Mike Gallo. You was snoozin'. I'm not apologetic about anyones behaviour. I know nothing of the history of racism in the NPD, and I've never been to Norfolk, Bill's claim of hearing bad things about NPD and alarmingly him notwithstanding.
..I googled OCO/Danladi Moore/NPD/arrest just about every combination I could. No hits. Perhaps you could take time out of your busy, insulting day and be less cryptic about your source of knowledge. What is OCO ?

Mr. Hardy made it clear he was only offering personal speculation. He doesn't always have to stick to the facts of law, as long as he's clear about which he's doing. Readers are smart enough to know the difference.

Here's a link to the Virginia-Pilot article about his arrest this time:

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/10/hours-after-norfolk-city-hall-visit-gun-advocate-detained

Can you get a restraining order again the cops? It would seem they're clearing establishing a pattern of false arrest and a series of other crimes.

The comments on that story as as delusional as always.

Ok, first Dave Dudley is a retired police officer. He retired out of Southern Ca. He has never seen behavior by a cop that he will admit is wrong. Although he claims to have investigated and arrested crooked cops. I used to frequent a forum he was on, and he always became insulting and horrified that a police officer would be held accountable. Just some background.

Now, Dave, if you had paid attention to this issue you would have seen that a white friend of Mr. Moore was standing right there when the incident took place. He was arrested, questioned, detained or relieved of his firearm. The only difference between the two to the naked eye, was color.

In your haste to whitewash (pun intended) all cop behavior you either a) didn't bother to find out what happened. or b) you did and purposely blinded yourself to what should be obvious at most and suspicious at the least.

He was NOT arrested......etc., it should read

Why do gun owners know the law, but LEOs don't?

When there are no penalties for being wrong and committing crime, knowing the law becomes a low priority endeavor.

Dudley seems bothered by the "it may be because he's black" possibility.

However, the fact remains that he keeps getting arrested for something that isn't a crime.

He is clearly being incorrectly targetted. Does it really make the cops look better if it's not because he's black?

How many times can they make the same mistake AND get called on it before Dudley accepts a malicious intent conclusion? Since the answer is different for "civilians", it's fair to ask why trained cops get more slack when they do wrong in their area of training. It's not like this is a stress situation....

The bigotry that keeps getting him arrested could well be just an anti-gun bigotry having nothing to do with his skin color...that might be sufficient, and it's bad enough that some cops (fortunately relatively few) feel that way about any armed citizen of any color or persuasion.

Having said that, the original purpose of gun control laws in the 19th century was to deny freed blacks and slaves the right to keep and bear arms. There are some (cops and civilians) in both north and south, and on both coasts, who still tend to think that way.

...In a fact based forum, Straightarrow stands out because he can't compete. Yes, I'm a retired cop, but not out of southern California, unless 7 miles south of the Orygun border is "southern".
...I don't know why Mr. Moore was arrested, and nothing in the comments here reveals this mystery. You all want to pass GO and skip to the guessing part. I can only imagine this is because you don't want to know why he was arrested, you want to make it up as you go along. IF he was arrested because of his race, federal and state felonies were committed and the arresting officers could and should go to prison. This is not a slim possibility. Dreadful and onerous civil penalties could and probably will ensue. Myriad legions of lawyers wait in the wings to carry the case to conclusion. Even as I type they are salivating with rictus mouths agape.
..If. IF. If we only had a system in place to find out what went on, a way to question the arresting officer under oath, a way to weigh the facts, the evidence and then have , say , 12 folks from the community mull it over and tell us whether they thought the law was broken, or not.
..By Jove, that's the ticket ! I think I've invented a way to bypass all the false dichotomies ( fill in your crackpot theory here ) and cut to the heart of the matter. A path through the dark forest of innuendo and slur. Kindly pay upon exiting the woods.

You are the one who said you served in southern Cal and retired to northern Cal.

I didn't leave because I couldn't compete. I left because I had absolutely no respect for the moderator. I consider him to be dishonest, and that opinion is based more on my observations of his rulings on the posts of others than anything he did or said to me. I also consider you to be dishonest. That opinion also is based on your words to others than your words to me.

Just as in this thread you refuse to acknowledge that other people of lighter skin color in the exact location, doing the exact same thing and observed by the cops did not get arrested. Now it is possible this isn't a race issue, but any thinking honest man would of necessity have to entertain the possibility and you haven't.

No one here, including myself have stated that it is known as fact that the race of the Mr. Moore was the major factor in his unique treatment. Yet you act as though we had and then excoriate us for a position we don't hold. I think you would not do that if we weren't talking about cops, if your behavior in the past is any indication. And I remember it quite well.

But as I said above, I suspect you of being dishonest, so I am not surprised. But, I did it fair to inform the others here as to your bona fides.

Now, I am through with you. One can never win a debate with a person not bound by honor or truth. One does not compete with them he either tolerates them or ignores them. I chose to ignore you and the aforementioned moderator.

Black, Yellow, or Green this dude is going to make a pretty good living with his legal settlements. Hope he keeps carrying cause nothing hurts politicians more than someone else getting the money they could get!!!

An alternative explanation would be that the police know who he is and have it in for him since he's causing them trouble (of course, only b/c they're causing him trouble first - and his trouble is of the legal variety, unlike the police). It is not as if such behavior by the police is unheard of.

Any way you cut it, it's bad.

It strikes me that what is going on here is pretty close to open warfare by the PD on the current law in VA that permits open carry.
Their harassment of a black man is really just a distraction, though it will make it harder for them to accomplish their aim, simply because of the questions it raises.
I can see how a dishonest campaign could get started trying to overturn that law, based on "the number of arrests for disorderly behavior by gun carriers" - while the truth is, those arrests were both improper and illegal.
In addition, anyone contemplating open carry has to face the possibility of police harassment - and all of the social and financial costs that entails.