Of Arms and the Law

Navigation
About Me
Contact Me
Archives
XML Feed
Home


Law Review Articles
Firearm Owner's Protection Act
Armed Citizens, Citizen Armies
2nd Amendment & Historiography
The Lecture Notes of St. George Tucker
Original Popular Understanding of the 14th Amendment
Originalism and its Tools


2nd Amendment Discussions

1982 Senate Judiciary Comm. Report
2004 Dept of Justice Report
US v. Emerson (5th Cir. 2001)

Click here to join the NRA (or renew your membership) online! Special discount: annual membership $25 (reg. $35) for a great magazine and benefits.

Recommended Websites
Ammo.com, deals on ammunition
Scopesfield: rifle scope guide
Ohioans for Concealed Carry
Clean Up ATF (heartburn for headquarters)
Concealed Carry Today
Knives Infinity, blades of all types
Buckeye Firearms Association
NFA Owners' Association
Leatherman Multi-tools And Knives
The Nuge Board
Dave Kopel
Steve Halbrook
Gunblog community
Dave Hardy
Bardwell's NFA Page
2nd Amendment Documentary
Clayton Cramer
Constitutional Classics
Law Reviews
NRA news online
Sporting Outdoors blog
Blogroll
Instapundit
Upland Feathers
Instapunk
Volokh Conspiracy
Alphecca
Gun Rights
Gun Trust Lawyer NFA blog
The Big Bore Chronicles
Good for the Country
Knife Rights.org
Geeks with Guns
Hugh Hewitt
How Appealing
Moorewatch
Moorelies
The Price of Liberty
Search
Email Subscription
Enter your email address:

Delivered by FeedBurner

 

Credits
Powered by Movable Type 6.8.7
Site Design by Sekimori

« Another "this is pitiful" moment | Main | Justice Scalia takes Justice Kagan shooting »

You never know which way is up

Posted by David Hardy · 24 October 2010 06:09 PM

Once upon a time, you could be sure that, if a band of guys clad all in black with masks concealing their faces kicked down your door, they were not law enforcement. Then it got to where if a band a guys clad all in black with masks concealing their faces kicked down your door, it WAS law enforcement. Now, you never know: the band of guys in black with guns and faces concealed kicking down your door might just be faking a role as law enforcement. And if they shoot the homeowner ... well, it's still pretty hard to tell.

One old time deputy here pointed out the foolish and risk involved: he said if you were going on a raid, you should want to be in full uniform, badge glittering, short haircut visible, everything to make sure the persons inside know you were police. Why, he wondered, would police dress up like criminals in a TV series?

8 Comments | Leave a comment

tab44 | October 24, 2010 8:58 PM | Reply

"Cause it'smore fun?

Joe | October 24, 2010 11:30 PM | Reply

"Why, he wondered, would police dress up like criminals in a TV series?"

Boy does someone need to be smacked with the clue bat!

Rich | October 25, 2010 7:42 AM | Reply

I know it is cynical but maybe because they are the criminals?

fwb | October 25, 2010 9:43 AM | Reply

Maybe some of these idiots should read Thomas M. Cooley on the Constitution. He has some very enlightening concepts on how the 4th is supposed to work. It doesn't include kicking in doors in the dark and hiding from the world. Cooley also discusses the right of a person to resist entry into his home even by the cops. But then many of those in the legal system seem to have problems reading and comprehending simple English sentences like the 4th amendment.

The elbiB teaches us that those who act under the cover of darkness are evil. The government/cops are no different. They hide their faces and their intentions under the black cover of law. They abuse their fellow citizens and claim they need to remain anonymous in order to pursue the bad guys.

If what they were doing was honorable, and it is not for more reasons than just the danger, the "police" would not behave like thugs.

EVERYONE wants their 15 minutes of fame, cops included. Cops don't follow the law, at least not where I live. I see lane changes without signals. I see using cell phones while driving. I see speeding. My father was a cop from 48-60 and he wonders what the heck happened. In his opinion, cops are 1) required to obey the law, a concept he taught me, and 2) supposed to set a good example. Were there bad cops back then? Of course. What happened now? We don't have morals or ethics. The government (the courts) threw them out the window with the bath water.

Dave R. | October 25, 2010 1:57 PM | Reply

Here's my thinking: I drive the speed limit, pay my taxes, and I don't touch drugs or hang out with criminals. If somebody comes through my door at night I'm playing it safe and taking them down. Because this is not a new or singular event, just a striking example of the genre. If it's police with a wrong address or malicious tip then I'm screwed, but so be it. I'll play the odds given that I know I'm clean.

And I don't believe I'm the only one thinking that way. It's too bad police haven't evaluated their reliance on no-knock warrants and ninja gear before, but since they haven't, it looks like it'll get done the hard way for all concerned.

Greg Stoltz | October 25, 2010 5:43 PM | Reply

Dave, I'm with you. I obey the law and if somebody comes crashing into my house in the dead of the night there are going to be GSWs to be cleaned up.

Even though plenty of wrong houses have been entered and many pets have been slaughtered, I really don't believe anything will change until several police officers end up dead because of a citizen lawfully protecting themselves.

Bill | October 27, 2010 12:23 PM | Reply

All you have to do is follow Radley Balko's reporting to know that the police, on the whole, are not your friends. They are not there to protect you. They view you as a mere "civilian" - and accordingly, they view themselves as superior. And forces have become excessively militarized, particularly in fighting the stupid, ridiculous and wasteful "war on drugs."

I say this as a person whose brother has been a New Jersey State Trooper for 22 years. I also knew a lot of cops in Bethelehem, PA when I was in college. Most of the south side Bethlehem cops, at least at that time, would have ended up in jail had they not become LEOs. I'm dead serious here. Half of them were nuts. They didn't give a crap what it took to get "the bad guys" - which they identified by single-digit numbers based on race or ethnicity. White people were number 1, or "ones", blacks were twos, latinos were "sixes". They were astonishingly racist, also referring to the "twos" as "porches", and the "sixes" as "haciendas." They were always pulling their guns out and pointing them at you as a joke. One of them accidentally fired his gun in the police locker room while he was changing his clothes.

So yeah, there was a time when I had a lot of respect for the police in general - and I still do, for a lot of them. But as a whole and in general, it has become way too clear that there is a THICK blue line separating "us" from "them" and when it comes down to it, the only thing they reliably will protect is their own butts.

And of course the absolute worst, worst thing you can do is fail to be sufficiently deferential to their "authority".

Bill | October 27, 2010 12:28 PM | Reply

"I really don't believe anything will change until several police officers end up dead because of a citizen lawfully protecting themselves."

It already has happened. The problem is that in such a circumstance, it is almost a certainty that you would end up dead yourself. And the investigation would find that the police acted appropriately and they all will be cleared of any improper actions.

There was one case, I can't remember the guy's name, where a guy shot the cops as they came crashing into his house, and he was not killed (although I believe he was shot) and he was cleared as having acted in reasonable self defense. I don't recall the particulars, but I'm confident it was an extreme case and is not something I would be too eager to try to replicate.

I agree with the concept that a law-abiding citizen should be able to use reasonable force, including deadly force where appropriate, in defending himself and his family from someone crashing into his house in the dead of night - whether the crashers are police or not.

Unfortunately, however, I disagree that things will change if law-abiding citizens shoot back at cops doing so - it always will come down that the citizen was a gun nut or that the cops acted appropriately, etc. And it likely would result in calls for increased gun control.

Leave a comment