BATF budget

And since the only police powers that the federal government constitutionally has are 1) punishment of counterfeiting, 2) punishment of piracies and felonies on the high seas, 3) punishment of offenses against the Law of Nations, and 4) punishment of Treason, it would appear they are spending a lot of money, time, and effort policing areas where they have no legal, legitimate, constitutional authority.

Outside the 13th amendment, the other areas of enforcement fall under control of the States, not of the People. See Amendments 14, 15, 19, 24, & 26.

The 18th was repealed and the 21st had no enforcement provision.

FWB, how come you didn't list the 16th Amendment?

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

I wish they'd use some of that extra half billion to hire 5-6 more NFA examiners...

Note that there is nothing in the 16th about "enforce".

AND what most folks don't understand is that the power to do one thing, say, coin money, DOES NOT include the power to punish violations of coining money, i.e. counterfeiting. The powers are separate, very much so. So although the Congress may lay and collect taxes, Congress has no constitutional authority to punish those who refuse to pay their taxes. This is not to say Congress does not punish nonpayers, just that it is not constitutionally permissible for them to do so.

Police powers were left to the states except for the 3 grants enumerated in the Constitution. Those "enforce" clauses mean they can enforce the granted power BUT by way of how the Constitution was constructed and how the powers are separated very succinctly, police (punishment) powers are withheld unless explicitly granted. IOW, there are no inherent punishment powers for if that were true the grant to Congress to provide for the punishment of treason would be unnecessary. If the grant were unnecessary, then those who support that reading are saying the Framers had no idea what they were doing.

Every grant in the Constitution is VERY limited. Read all of Article I, Section 8 and organize the grants into related grouping. Note things like power to coin money does not include the power to set/regulate the value of that money. Also note the power to spend for the "common Defence" does not include the power "to raise and support armies" or "to provide and maintain a Navy".

IMO, anyone with an above average IQ should be able to comprehend the intimate relationships of the grants of powers and to see that each grant is extremely specific. Each grant DOES NOT include related authority even though the supreme Court wants the People to believe the grants provide some sort of implied powers. The grants about money alone prove that concept is wrong.

Jim: Since the feds have no authority to place NFA controls on anything (proven by the 18th amendment - needed an amendment to ban/regulate booze - need a different amendment to ban/regulate firearms), why would you want more regulators in violation of the supreme law of the land?

Sorry, Jim. That message should have been for KHARN.

That's OK, FWB. It's like a frat house drinking game, sometimes it gets on you and sometimes it's really funny.

Not so big on Artical I Sec 8 para 1?

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes"

Seems plain to me.

There's also Art I Sec 8 para

"To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States"

I dunno, man. I think we got into this soley because of the Civil War and Federalism.

I'm with you though, brother. Repeal the 16th Amendment!

The commerce clause might not be what people intended it to be, but its the law of the land.

And the Commerce Clause says commerce in which the states participate, not commerce among the people or commerce among businesses.

Commerce is an activity, not things. Anyone who has read the first 120 yrs of constitutional law will find that things were never controlled. In fact, the 18th amendment proves the commerce clause does not cover things. If the commerce clause did what the judges claim, then the 18th amendment was simply BS and was never needed. OR as is correct, the feds have no authority over things and need amendment to allow them to regulate the things.

I suggest a course in finance and one in economics. Also a simple review of a dictionary might help. c...o...m...m...e...r...c...e

"the buying and selling of goods, esp. when done on a large scale between cities, states, or countries; trade"

At one point the supreme court ruled that commerce carried on within state boundaries is not covered. Then the court changed its mind and let anything that affects/effects commerce be included.

Someday I'll explain the Creator/created concept to you about who can and cannot decide the meaning of the Constitution. It AIN'T the courts.

And the power to regulate commerce DOES NOT INCLUDE the power to punish violations of those regulations.

The power to coin money did not include the power to punish counterfeiting that money. See Article I, Section 8. The powers are SEPARATE. In order for the feds to punish violations of commerce regulations, a separate grant stating Congress shall the power to punish violations of commerce regulations MUST be explicitly written into the Constitution. Regulating commerce and punishing violations of those regulations are separate powers. There are no inherent and no implied powers in the Constitution. Read all of Article I, Section 8. Record the powers and organize them into related groupings. Again... The power to declare war does not include the power to raise an army. Note the powers are separately granted. Nor does the power to spend money for the common Defence allow the government to raise armies or have a navy or declare war or call up the militia. Every one of these very distinct and separate but related powers had to granted explicitly. Or may folks think the Framers had no idea of the Constitution and government they were creating.