Report from Ohio State University campus

I run my gun club's collegiate marksmanship program. We attract smart, capable, honest and sober students who want to learn to shoot rifle, pistol and shotgun. They are safe, pick up the sport quickly and train up to high level of ability (young eyes and steady hands help a lot). If my state had shall issue CCW I'd be very glad to have them around and armed in a crisis. Some are combat veterans and I admit I've learned a trick or two from them. The whole issue of "drunken college students with guns" is a non-starter, at least with the self-selected kids that I know. Turns out that under current federal law (10 USC 311) all the young men are ALREADY members of the militia. Go figure why they aren't allowed to defend themselves and their neighbors.

I hate to suggest this, but your wife needs to be carrying regardless of the law. If she ever has to use the gun, it won't matter afterwards if she gets fired for doing so. Being murdered or raped as a condition of employment is not reasonable.

Dave, is there any substance to the idea of suing an organization for denying you the right to protect yourself? In other words, if they deny your right to lawfully carry a firearm, something the judges in Heller said was effective for self defense, aren’t they de facto guaranteeing your safety while you are in the no-guns zone? If I’m in the sterile area of the airport, I feel relatively safe because I know that even though I don’t have a gun or knife, neither does anyone else. So if the college demands a sterile environment, aren’t they assuming the liability for protecting the people who are in that environment?

+1 to this. I'm also curious of the viability of this. I saw the Ft. Hood shooting as such an opportunity because all but the police victims were a) well trained in weapons and b) Disarmed.

seems like it would be a great bridge in the property rights, vs. Civil rights issue.

As much as I support CCW, anyone who believes teenage college students should be armed needs to work at a University for a few months to disabuse themselves of that notion.

I'm a college student. I have a license to carry, and I have kel-tec 9mm. I have been very very drunk before and make sure my weapon is secure before start. What I have found is over whelming support for carrying on campus. Currently I'm on a gun-free campus. It is gun-free by way of students, faculty and staff. There have been shootings but the criminals are the ones doing it. Not the drunk students.

Obviously, Guest has no idea what he is talking about. A teen is unable to get a CCW; a person has to be at least 21 years of age.

Guest, you're appealing to false authority. Examples of college students that should certainly be allowed to carry have already been given here. You need to give compelling evidence that a prohibition policy does any good, which we've shown in this very case to be fallacious thinking, before your statement has any merit.

David, I would parrot the advice that it's not worth enduring an assault unarmed over a policy or law. Off-person carry is a good way to avoid problems, as no LEO is able to perform a search on a bag without a warrant or consent to my knowledge. Satchels and/or purses are a good way to effect this if you set up a holster in the bag to ensure safety of handling and transport.

Here in Florida, my CCW also covers other weapons than a firearm. While I would MUCH rather have my gun with me wherever I go, I have been contemplating some other form of consealed weapon to have on my person in places where the "gun shall not go". I haven't come up with anything yet as the alternative that I origionally had in mind it turns out is illegal here in Florida... go figure.

Anyone have any ideas?

s

You know, there are more than just drunken teenagers on college campuses. Staff, faculty, and grad students all are out and about.

Oh noes! Drunken college students will shoot each other if CCW is allowed!

Where have we heard that PSH before? In every single may issue state before they made the switch to shall issue

Simple self defense for everyone, and completely legal: Wasp Spray.
With a 30ft range, twice the pain-inflicting power of Pepper Spray or Mace, and no lasting effects, a can of Wasp Spray is an excellent recourse for those who feel the need to have a powerful defensive weapon on hand.

Mr. Hardy: I don't understand how state universities can do this under 42USC1983: [quote]Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia. [quote]

It seems that these regulations clearly deprive people of their rights...perhaps you can comment on my rationale (tell me why I'm wrong), or ask/suggest the SAF/NRA/etc to take it on.

Thanks,

OSU may be spouting the conventional stupditiy about CCW and armed self-defense, but it wouldn't matter. Ohio's "must issue" CCW statute takes the choice out of OSU's hands, and says that the permit does not allow carry on property owned by or leased to the state, and governmental entituy, or any educational institution. The legislature has ruled out carry -- concealed or open -- at OSU on at least two grounds.

42USC1983 doesn't apply because the Supreme Court ruled in Cruikshank that the right to bear arms was not "secured by the Constitution" against violations by the states. In a couple months those long defective decisions will finally be overruled by McDonald. But then even a very 2A friendly 3 judge panel here in the 9th circuit ruled in Nordyke that local governments can ban guns on government property. The reasoning of the university will probably be something like saying that you don't have to go on the campus if you don't like the rules.

I'll second the thoughts above. In that kind of high risk situation, rive the speed limit, don't touch drugs, be respectful to cops, keep your mouth shut about it and carry your darn gun.

Well guest, I worked at a college for 5 years (and attended several in my day) so I can speak with equal authority to your contention. You got it wrong, and as noted above, you're making the same argument gun-banners have used for years. Experience proved them wrong too. I certainly don't see any mention of exceptions for college students in the 2nd Amendment. I reiterate that half of those students are already militia members under current federal law. Change that if you want your way. Otherwise, get over your prejudices.

I was in ROTC at OSU some time ago; we (and at least one competition team) practiced firing in the firing range in the basement, but for combat-style drills we used fake weapons, because they weren't allowed out of the building. Once we got permission to take larger, authentic weapons outside to practice setting up firing lines and the like, but they were permanently disabled before they were even issued to the ROTC unit (Reserve surplus: we had lots of old junk.)

It was enough to make this then-17-year-old wonder if anyone knew what we were actually be trained for.

For what it's worth, they also recommend (or at least did when I was there) that you take self-defense classes from the Recreation department. That's where I learned how to take out a guy in a giant rubber suit by aiming for his knees.

Although I don't work for a university anymore, I do hope the Texas Ledge votes to allow campus carry in 2011.

I also had to go into downtown Houston today and the central Public Library has a 30.06 sign (which bars CHLs)...while my suburban Public Library has no such sign. Guess which one is more dangerous, with more shifty-eyed people out front...

Wasn't there this little altercation in Texas in where UT students used their guns to help the police round about 1966? See college students with guns ARE good for something, huh?

The problem of colleges surrounded by "slums" has developed over decades as rural-located colleges were surrounded by city. My alma mater was rural when us WWII people came on board. The campus cop had a rusty .38 caliber revolver. The current campus Chief of Police has a regular force of six men and women, plus campus volunteers to patrol and assist at events. It still isn't enough people! But the College will not permit guns on campus except for "the six," who carry approved and inadequate side arms. No guns locked down in the cruisers, please. College administrations all over the country will not permit an adequate defense structure on their turf! Violence is a crime of opportunity, even on campus. Having a cop around except when needed looks bad to gentle alumni, who might not approve. My grandson is in search of a University. I am teaching him all the WWII instructions I recall: most of them actually! I remember Tim's rusty .38 fondly.

gun free zone = target rich environment for criminals.

As a student at OSU (68-71),I remember the place well. May 1970, just before the incident at Kent State University, the hippies, SDS, and others were rioting. Almost 100 Ohio Highway Patrolmen were admitted to University Hospital for injuries sustained in quelling the riots.

This was long before legal CCW in Ohio, but we knew the principles of the Warren case. "I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy." I passed my second accounting course because I attended all the classes. I crossed more than one picket line with a HiPower in the pocket of my field jacket. I got out of the Army in 1968 and was less than concerned about the SE Asia wargames. They were over for me.

When the university system of Ohio shut down after Kent State, I extracted my fiancee (still wife now) and delivered her to her parents. M2 Carbine under the seat of the VW made things better.

Those of us in the Ohio Gun Collector's Association firmly believed that it was better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. 40 years later, same old, same old.

III