LEO in need of training

I wish I had not looked at this tonight. I am sick to my stomach. How long can we put up with this. LEOs can not be immune from this type of behaviour. We are told that ignorance of the law is no excuse. These LEOs give all a bad name. Why is this not on covered by the main street media? In a perfect world, I would win the lottery, go to law school and handle 2A cases pro bono

IMO, at least ONE of these "I didn't know the law" LEOs must be tried, convicted and sentenced to (regular) prison, where he will probably (unfortunately) be killed. IF that ever happened, how fast do you think the word would go around the entire LEO community?

But if we're NEVER willing to do it to ANY one of these folks, the message we send is that it doesn't matter if you unlawfully pull a gun on a citizen, the worst you'll get is a reprimand.

On the civil side, I wish that at least ONE of these innocent victims were able to sue the municipality and win a HUGE judgment - one that costs a LARGE percentage of the police budget for a year. Maybe require laying off a good portion of the police (or make equivalent drastic cutbacks in other civic services) and make that community suffer for a year. If it happened just ONCE, do you think the word would go around the municipal councils of the country? In a heartbeat. And mayors, etc., would let their chiefs of police know in no uncertain terms that their officers are expected to know and obey ALL of the laws, even the ones the chiefs don't like. One community would suffer, but the message would be sent and almost certainly received.

But if it NEVER happens, well the same incentive just ain't there, and we'll continue to see these sorts of assaults by LEOs. At least until we have multiple generations of LEOs who have grown up with armed civilians and think nothing of it (as, I gather, is the case in Indiana, which has had concealed carry for something like 70 years and where the LEOs view it as pretty normal.)

Seems like kind of a severe penalty for failing to inform the officer you are armed. I'm sure that federal guidelines for concealed carry training, announcing if you're armed, etc. would be good, but now may be the wrong environment to try to advance the issue.

The driver should have told them, given Georgia law; but also, they should have asked.

I agree that the grip used was quite a strange one. I wonder where the cop picked that up?

I suspect the purpose of the strange grip was to keep the officers own hand from blocking his view of the suspect so he could watch the suspects hand movements etc. Or maybe the officer was standing at an angle and behind the suspect so that it was less awkward than bending the wrist back at an angle out of line with his arm. Or maybe both.

Cops break the law all the time during stops. They know they can get away with it. We need more law enforcement of law enforcement.

Some comments on the Georgia forum say there is no requirement to notify the police when stopped. Does anyone know for sure?

Not only did the officer in question threaten and assault (legally) an innocent man, he LIED about the law. There is absolutely NO REQUIREMENT AT ALL for anyone to "notify" a LEO that they have a firearm on them at any time.

There is a link to a letter from the Deputy's Captain posted a ways down in which the Captain acknowledges there is no legal requirement in Georgia to notify a LEO you are armed. It would be a smart thing to do so but is not required.

Nortius, in GA there is no requirement to notify an officer if you are lawfully carrying.

Some of the conversation is not clear. But right after the first officer asks him to step out of the car, the second officer says "don't reach for it" and that is when the first officer draws on the driver.

I've had Georgia police officers tell me NOT to disclose that I have a gun unless I believe the officers will see it, because they don't trust that all of their fellow officers will react appropriately. I've been carrying almost 20 years, mostly in Georgia, and only had two negative encounters - in both cases either the officer's coworkers straightened them out, or a supervisor did. But we've had some real zingers of encounters here in Georgia, where the police were clearly making things up on the spot, fortunately GCO has a good track record in court about them.

The officer has probably been trained in the Center Axis Relock method of gunfighting, but he really needs some re-training. In that situation he should have taken the gun to his left hand and supported with the right. C.A.R. is a very good close quarters shooting method...when done correctly.

That said the driver was a dick. He should have informed the officer immediately that he had a permit to carry. Not that I HAVE A GUN. He should have known that the offhand cop would see the gun.

The "I didn't do anything wrong" business is stupid. The cop informed him that his license plate light was out. It's a legitimate stop. Don't be a dick. Unless you want the cop to be one right back.

Heckler, you do realize that you can carry a firearm in Georgia ANYHWERE without a license and be perfectly legal right? If you're not a prohibited person you can carry as you please. Being armed in your car is NOT cause for police to point guns at you. You're not required to inform the officer.

Ryan:

Can you please post information (or source) regarding this?

"you can carry a firearm in Georgia ANYHWERE without a license and be perfectly legal ... If you're not a prohibited person you can carry as you please."

Because that would be news to me.

I think Ryan meant that in Georgia, you can have a gun anywhere in your car even if you don't have a Firearms License. This was a law change from Rep. Bearden's HB89. The only people not allowed to have a gun in the car are prohibited people underage, felons, etc.

Basically, there is no licensing requirement for possessing a gun anywhere in your car.

We have significant issues in South Georgia with cops abusing not only guns laws but other civil rights. GeorgiaCarry.Org has just started to scratch the surface of these problems. I'm hoping there will be alot of future lawsuits from GCO.

Ryan

It's night time. You get pulled over. The cops are on edge. It is purely common sense to let a cop know that you have a weapon and where it is.

That situation would have been completely different if the kid had simply handed the cop his carry permit with his drivers license the moment he stepped to the door.

The cops should approach every car with guns drawn and ready to blow the head off the person driving the car. They should always search the car too. It's all for officer safety.

I'll give Big Ed the benefit of doubt and assume he's writing with tongue in cheek.

Does GA have a legal requirement for license plate lights?

Heckler wrote: "It's night time. You get pulled over. The cops are on edge. It is purely common sense to let a cop know that you have a weapon and where it is."

I was a police officer for 12 years, and yet on the rare occasion I am stopped, I do NOT inform the police that I am armed or that I possess a firearms license. This is due to a negative encounter that stemmed from doing just that. Therefore, your suggestion does not seem like so much common sense to me.

Your naive prediction that the outcome "would have been completely different" ignores the practice down in Glynn County of harassing people who are legally carrying pistols.

Heckler's right: the needs of the Lords of the Badge (who shall no longer be referred to by the demeaning title, 'police', as if they were common citizens subject to law) to feel comfortable shall supersede any possible discomfort a mere, non-Blue-Line citizen (spit) shall feel when shot. For THEY are the LORDS of the BADGE!

Ed Stone said- "Your naive prediction that the outcome "would have been completely different" ignores the practice down in Glynn County of harassing people who are legally carrying pistols."

So are you saying it would have turned out WORSE than it did? With the second officer seeing the weapon on the guys hip? Are you saying he would have been worse off by telling the officer up front that he had a permit and a weapon than it turned out with the officer seeing it unexpectadly and becoming alarmed? Worse than the kid getting mildly snotty with the officer?

Please explain how?

And you call ME naive. chucklesnort.

These officers (sic) broke the law. As a citizen of the USA (read the constitution (especially Georgia)), you do not have to explain why or IF you're carrying a pistol to these public servants. They are not above the law, but act as if they are. This man was within his rights, but they were violated when he was asaulted by these thugs with badges.

It's time we STOPPED allowing these thugs to terrorize lawful individuals for doing NOTHING unlawful.

There is not a requirement to inform officers of carrying a firearm. My usual reply when asked if there are weapons in my car is "What do you want?" as I often have weaponry up to a select fire Uzi in the vehicle.

The officers are either completely ignorant of the applicable law in Georgia or they are ignoring that law. If the first, they need to be reprimanded and sent to remedial training as they were apparently asleep the first time. If the second, they need to be charged with any applicable offense and tried for those crimes.

And saying,"I didn't do anything wrong." after haveing a gun pointed at your head is being snotty? The kid sounded scared to me. And rightfully so.

I support the police. I don't support would be jackbooted thugs. Sadly, these two officers are not your friends, are not assets to their fellow officers. and-if allowed to remain officers-are a threat to every citizen they interact with.

Sincerely,

Byron Quick

Obviously, the LEO were looking for some trouble. Now, we understand why they are late for actual criminal activities.

Thugs. Why I never say a word when I'm carrying. Would I like to be able to openly carry without harassment? Yes, but I won't until things like this stop. I keep seeing the posts here and everywhere that show most citizens have forgotten that these are OUR laws, enforcement of them is FOR us. When LEOs get out of hand, don't know the law, etc they should not be LEOs anymore until they can prove they know the law and can enforce it without trampling liberties. Innocent until proven guilty. Sure. The sheep keep giving up my liberties to feel warm and fuzzy. Sad to watch us turn into a police state.

Hey we all know LEO's aren't geniuses. Give the cops a break and try to make them as comfortable as possible when encountering them. At least Glynn County hasn't gotten as bad a Jacksonville. Cops, for the most part do a good job, but many come into the job because they are bullies or the atmosphere encourages them to become bullies. It's fairly obvious that these guys didn't know what they were doing. They seemed ready to jump to the wrong conclusion at every moment during this entire encounter. The number of threatening statements they made should insure retraining or even dismissal. NO CITIZEN should ever be dealt with in this manner.

Traffic stops like the one in this article, are a dream to me. I will not hesitate to file a civil rights law suite agains any LEO that is so ignorant as to do the same to me.
I have carried for 30 odd years and have had a CCP as long as I can remember. I'm also a three tour combat veteran of Vietnam in the infantry with three Purple Hearts and two Silver Stars and I do not like people pointing guns at me. I know first hand what it is like to be shot.
Many years ago, a Glynn County police officer named Ray Christianson, accidentally shot an innocent man during a traffic stop. If I remember correctly, he shot him in the stomach.
Glynn County Police dept. has many good and knowledgeable officers, but officer Mason and the other officer in the picture, are not amoung them as proven by their actions. "Stupid is as stupid does". Lets hope Chief Sonny Dorring will take notice of the problem before someone else gets hurt. My tax dollar pays his salary along with all the other officers.

Several yrs ago I was hit with a car and a man carrying a gun ran at me as he had blocked my way.
I had a gun and I had a permit as I left for work at4:30 am.All I could think of was to get away from this idiot and I was trying to get to a Police station. In Stockbridge they are closed at night. I put my car in reverse and tried to get to Morrow to the Police. I had to drive in someone's yard and blow my horn and had the man call the police.The officer's came and when one saw my gun he went berzerk! I had forgotten I had it as what woman wants to have a shootout? I told him I had a permit and he inspected it and stuck my gun in his belt and walked away. When I questioned that he almost got in my face and said "Look lady. Just because your permit cks out doesn't mean the gun will check out! He also ask if I was drunk. They had to call HC police as that is where the guy first hit my car and blocked my way.Hc officers were supportive and handed me my gun back.

Several points here:

First, the US Constitution and the Georgia Constitution allow a citizen the right to keep and bear arms. The Permit allows us to carry it concealed. While I may inform an officer that I am carrying, it is not required. Enough said.

Second, an officer is not allowed to draw his weapon and escalate to deadly force without cause. From the video, there does not seem to be a real cause or legal basis for doing so. Thus the officer probably needs some additional training. Besides, if it was the partner who saw the weapon, why did he not draw. Simply put, the driver's side officer overreacted, but by the draw he was not in fear (I base my observation on 21 years in Special Forces). Again, retraining is highly suggested.

Third point, wow, why allow a search of the vehicle. If the officer has cause, then let him gain a judge's permission/authority to conduct a search. In case you do not remember, it is also an Amendment to the Constitution against unwarranted search and seizure.

Final point, once the officer has informed you of the cause for the traffic stop, reply to that, hand over your license and registration. If he asks other questions as the situation here demonstrates, stop providing him additional information for him to make a case (as in the second officer's 'accusation' of a felony charge for drugs). Remember, we are innocent until proven otherwise. I have talked about similar issues with my law enforcement friends and those I work with in Federal LE. This was over the top.

You guys are all jumping to conclusions TOO FAST. The ENTIRE video is out on YouTube and clearly shows that the officers advised the driver that had he notified them he was carrying, their attitude would have been different. The driver is little more than a smart-ass punk and when one officer asks him what kind of pistol it is - the driver doesn't even know - and admits he only bought it the week prior and has never even shot it. I believe this clearly demonstrates the driver to be inexperienced and uneducated on many things - including respect for LEO, and concern for the safety of others. In my opinion, the driver needs to get some training and practical experience before he attempts to carry again.

I don't think these two should go around inpersonating an officer :-)

Telling someone you are going to blow their F****** head off is a terroristic threat, and the officer should have been arrested. I heard no threatening comments from the person being accosted for no tag light.

That is not some weird sideways gangster hold BTW. That is a rapid fire / low recoil technique for accurate shot placement in close quarters known as CAR or Center Axis Reflex.

I posted to my blog about a training I did while working in GA for an Agency.

http://andysgunthoughts.wordpress.com/range-day/

While NOT indicative of all police in GA, the group I was stuck with SUCKED.

Andy

Hey dip thong, you don't have to notify any Georgia cop that you are carrying. Ignorant gasbag.