CA bills up for vote

Send each congress critter two letters. Our best hope long term is get them thrown out in court.

We shall see if the CA legislature reacts to the Heller decision in the way so many other state and local government officials have ... which has been "well, even if we want to do it, it's questionably unconstitutional."

Anyone think that logic will rule the day in CA?

"Constitution!? We don' need no steenking Constitution!"

All three will pass, and the Governator will sign them. Absent some sort of judicial invervention, California is a lost cause. No self-respecting firearms/ammo dealer, wholesaler, or manufacturer should do business with anyone in the state, including all state/county/local government entities. Screw 'em.

Letalis ... I'd venture to guess you don't live in California. I feel bad for the freedom-loving folks there, perhaps because I can relate from Illinois.

With no disrespect meant, it's far easier to write off someone else's problems than your own. I see this from folks in Indiana regarding those of us in Illinois ... sort of an "I don't give a crap about you, and you're stupid to live there." We need everyone on board, because we are one nation and what goes down in CA affects us all, at least indirectly. I think California needs the help of gun rights people everywhere.

With no disrespect meant, it's far easier to write off someone else's problems than your own. I see this from folks in Indiana regarding those of us in Illinois ... sort of an "I don't give a crap about you, and you're stupid to live there." We need everyone on board, because we are one nation and what goes down in CA affects us all, at least indirectly. I think California needs the help of gun rights people everywhere."

No disrespect to you either but California's issues are California's issues. The people there can either cahnge the law or leave. If they leave and take their tax money with them while telling the government why they are leaving, they can make their point far more effectively than years of lobbying or legal challenges. Economic power is political power, vote with your dollars. I, like may gun owners, have sympathy for people living in California but I don't give handouts to alcoholic bums even if I feel bad for them, so why would I waste my resources on people who CHOOSE to live under those laws?

Well Deavis, some of us stay here and fight. We don't win as often as I'd like, but we don't quit and we don't run. Your advice is bad advice and I'm pretty sick of so-called Americans giving up on their fellow citizens. Thanks for nothing. Heller didn't leave DC, and he was in worse shape than we are here in the PRK.

>>>Anyone think that logic will rule the day in CA?

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Not a chance.

We are so SCREWED.

Opinions vary.

I sympathize with Californians who are not part of the problem. I also, don't. They have seen time and again that law and constitution mean nothing there. Even when the win a small battle, it gets turned back on them at the next legislative session or court hearing.

But nobody leaves, nobody votes for the new guy, nobody withholds support for the tyranny that is rampant in Ca. politics from the smallest burg to the largest city.

Since there simply aren't enough who try to reestablish liberty in Ca. and since as they say what happens in Ca. eventually affects all the rest of us, I support the cessation of business by all members of the industries of weaponry, firearms, accessories and ammunitions.

Let the rest of the country mull the results of those Ca. policies and their effects. Perhaps then, the rest of America will affect Ca. It sure as hasn't for a Hell of a long time now.

Liken it to Darfur. If we cannot arm the victims, we sure as Hell don't have to voluntarily arm their oppressors.

Well, Messrs Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Monroe, Jackson, Henry, et al, if you don't like it here, you can just leave, just don't raise a ruckus on the way out, or we'll have to do something about it.

Folks, RKBA will likely be incorporated *because* of actions in California.

This is where the battlefield is.

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

California is no more of a lost cause than is Massachusetts. We're all Americans and we all have rights worth standing up for and defending. The key is how we go about it. If we don't hang together, we shall all surely hang separately, eh? I've never thought that cutting and running, only to save your own skin and leave your commrades behind, was a very honorable or American ideal. Do you?

If the RKBA community could come together with a solid, long term strategy to regain what we've lost, we might be on to something worthwhile. Heller was enormous, the Brown v BoE of our age. I hope that we don't squander that gain. It took a lot of guts, hard work and brilliant talent to get out of the NRA box and win big, even if it was by the narrowest of margins. It can and will be done again.

The RKBA community is blessed by two overwhelming factors. First, our cause is righteous. Second, we have some truly brilliant minds to guide the work. Gura, Levy, Kopel, Hardy, Halbrook, Cramer, Young and a whole host of others. With the right leadership and the necessary resourses at their disposal, we can't help but win in the long run. I'm convinced that we can turn the whole issue 180 degrees within a decade. Do you think that it would be worth, on average, $10/year to every NRA member to fight this battle with the right leadership and talent? $40 million a year can buy a hell of a lot of strong, well directed litigation and PR. How many of the Students for Concealed Carry on Campus are studying law and government? They've grown to 30000 strong in a year. That's a force to be reckoned with. We need to use some of that new talent, and they're just itching for a good fight under the right leadership. Clearly, the NRA board hasn't done a very good job all of these decades past with the strategic mission and the big picture. Something has got to change and the time is ripe.

What do you all think?

I think that Bill in San Jose is absolutely right. Meaningful incorporation is the target. To that I'd add full faith and credit, equal protection and due process. Besides DC, there are seven states that need to be carpet bombed. Ca, Il, Wi, Ma, NY, NJ and Md. Forget the rest and focus on them, relentlessly. Carefully pick the most offensive laws and then find a group of thoroughly well vetted litigants in each of those states. The state rifle associations can help in finding the very best people. An example of where to begin would be the discretionary licensing in the city of Boston vs the vast part of the state where, for all intents and purposes, the licensing is "shall issue" for "all lawful purposes".

Again, your thoughts?

You can't give up on any state of this United States, especially one as influential as California. (I'll confess that I don't lose a lot of sleep over Delaware's gun laws.) I agree that it's tempting to write them off. I admit to being completely bewildered by the stuff that moves through the legislature out there, but they are Americans and their civil rights are being threatened. What happens there will affect us all.

Nobody said you had to run away, nothing says the people who don't live there should support the tyrants, against you. By not trading with them on their tools of tyranny enforcement, as Mr. Barret did, we just may make your fight easier.

AS of now, and for a long time, the tyrants have had no loss of access to anything they wanted, while denying rights to the rest of you. Do you really want out of staters to continue strengthening their hand, while yours is weakened by the state?

What planet does that make sense on?

The larger problem that California represents is summed up in the old bromide "as California goes, so goes the rest of the country." Ask the automotive enthusiasts about that.
Especially with so much intellectual-influencing power concentrated there in the entertainment industry, the tendency towards simplistic statist solutions can easily metastasize onto screens everywhere else.
Watch "Law and Order" and shiver.