Dick Heller shows up to register his gun

Dave, Thanks for posting this. We're going to have to take a page from the civil rights movement and apply unceasing pressure against the DC Council.

The article doesn't say the make/model, but I'm betting it has to be a 1911 of some variety.

Brilliant choice of handgun for purposes of an incremental lawsuit overthrowing the semi-auto ban.

- The most popular handgun in the United States, if not the world.
- Former standard-issue military sidearm.
- Low, non-threatening, magazine capacity.
- The basic design is nearly a century old.

In other words, it isn't some sort of "new fangled high-tech assault gun". It clearly fits any sort of militia requirements. It is clearly in "common use".

Gee, the FBI has a nice link on their website about Federal Civil Rights laws, including how to report violations. Including 18 US Code sections 241 and 242...

Nope, they are doing a lump grouping of firearms, this will expedite it's swift return to federal court, and DC will get slapped on this. Will bring Strict Scrutiny to the forefront.

...I hope Mr. Heller returns with his .45 Auto and not a revolver. D.C. is playing a mugs game here. Best to grind their face in it. I'd hope the 2nd circuit would slap the BeJesus out of them tout sweet.

So maybe Dick should sue over their refusal to register his semi auto pistol.

DD:

I suspect you mean the D.C. Circuit, it being asking too much to expect the D.C. district court to favor Mr. Heller's rights now any more than it did the first time around.

Who is suing over this the second time? I understood Gura and friends were busy in Chicago.

Well if things worked like the founders thought, Lowe's and Home Depot would be selling out of pitch forks, tar and rails about now.

...Professor Hardy, a question ? : Can Mr. Heller not go back to SCOTUS and get an order to comply with their ruling ? Does he have to start anew down that long lonesome trail ?

Why do you think he took a pistol instead of a revolver to be registered?

Order out take out popcorn.

The Washington Post story doesn't mention Heller's handgun being the reason he was denied, only that it was denied because he didn't being it with him. Reading the story it appears that DC is NOT acting in good faith and pretty much ignoring the Court's mandates. None of the hurdles they erected would be acceptable for any other individual civil right.


"An applicant must fill out registration forms, submit fingerprints and pass a written firearm-proficiency test, while police ballistics experts test-fire the revolver. The revolver will then be returned to the owner, but he or she cannot legally use the weapon, even for self-defense, until notified that the registration has been approved.


Before approving a registration, police will conduct a background check of the applicant. There are several disqualifying factors, including a felony conviction or a history of mental illness. Ballistics examiners will compare the test-fired bullets to bullets from unsolved shootings to determine if a revolver was used in a crime.

It is unclear how long it normally will take for police to approve a registration application."



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/17/AR2008071700621.html?hpid=topnews

From The Washingon Post article:

Ballistics examiners will compare the test-fired bullets to bullets from unsolved shootings to determine if a revolver was used in a crime.

AH HA!

More mischief. We've learned from a previous study that the above will result in a lot of false positives, and it's a subjective "expert witness" judgement. More opportunies to throw innocent civilians in jail, and for serious felonies including murder.

I'll bet at some point they'll make an example of someone to discourage anyone from even trying, and this testing stikes me as something that will be hard to challenge under Heller.

They are more clever than I thought.

- Harold

This was predicted a few days ago. DC has an "assault weapons" ban that includes any gun that can accept a "high capacity magazine." Since just about any semi-auto pistol can accept after-market magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, they are effectively outlawed. This would mean that, most likely, for now Heller will only apply to revolvers in D.C.

I'm still thinking about the "unusual and dangerous" clause Scalia used. Semi autos are neither.

"Why do you think he took a pistol instead of a revolver to be registered?"

I was thinking the exact same thing. As he was refused, he now has standing to file another suit and to at it again. Gotta admire the guy's intestinal and testicular fortitude. And his stamina and determination not to let the bastards wear him down.

I don't see anything in the ruling about a .38 revolver. I Did find this, "Assuming that Heller is not disqualified from the exercise of Second Amendment rights, the District
must permit him to register his handgun and must issue him a license to carry it in the home." Why is that not enforceable? After all, the 1911 IS HIS HANDGUN!

Sorry, I wrote the "anon" post at 4:12 pm. Hit the send button too quick.

actually, if put to a penetration test, a 4" l-frame s&w 686 or colt python in either .357 or .44 mag with standard lead round nose ammo is surprisingly effective.

the .45 is a fact or a supposition? the original post was not clear, or at least i didn't catch that in the article. first mention of a .45 was in a response post when someone else on the board asked what type of semi-auto was being registered... perhaps mine eyes are playing tricks on me...

yes, i agree with the notion that a .45 auto or other large bore autoloader would be preferable in a close combat situation... i personally prefer the colt 1991a1 stainless commander in .45 auto with pachmayer grips and a hi viz sights, along with a pocketful of wilson mags in idpa and ipsc competition, but i'll easily reach for a good revolver any day of the week if i thought i was the target of a threat, or could perhaps "be" the target in a certain environment.

my personal carry weapon in central texas is a 1970-ish colt detective special with walnut grips, fully lugged barrel, nice blue finish, and 6, not 5, as what you would encounter with the ubiquitous j-frame smith, .38 special hollow points. i doubt the 2" barrel on the special would propel the bullet past the sonic barrier, so it's a doubt the hollow points effectively expand, but i carry it all the time. am 100% sure i could neutralize 2 or 3 threats with it quite quickly, and it's **way** more concealable and lightweight than any of the 8 .45 caliber autoloaders i own.

i personally think we all owe mr. heller a debt in taking the time and trouble out of his life to go through this merry-go-round. an expensive one, if would imagine...

it'll be nice to see if he gets back into the scotus with this one, or if he'll be satisfied with being able to defend hisself.

what's the story with a rem 870 or win 1300 pumpgun by your bed in d.c.? is that taboo too? normally even the strictest states allow you to carry around a shotgun... one would think you could legally have one in the home in d.c... can't believe no one in the nation's capitol hunts birds locally...

Well, as expected the news reports seem conflicting. Outside the Beltway links to a story at WTOP that state Mr. Heller was turned away because he didn't bring his gun to the police station. He left the weapon outside DC at the advice of his lawyer since DC doesn't have any firearm transport provisions in their laws. The lawyer recommended getting written authorization from the DC police to avoid some made up gun charge for transporting a weapon in the District.

My understanding is that the Heller decision covers possession and movement of a firearm within a persons home but doesn't really cover the transport, much less carrying, of a firearm outside the home in DC. With DC playing these games, it is good legal advice to not bring the weapon into DC until the approved method to transport a firearm is ascertained. One story mentions the guns must be brought to the police, unloaded and well wrapped.

One excerpt from a DC news source over at OTB has this quote regarding the efforts to prevent a FFL holder operating in DC:

"Vince Gray (D-At-Large), chairman of the D.C. Council, says he wants to make it as hard as possible for gun stores to open. “First of all, I don’t want them anywhere,” Gray says, “but if we’re going to have them, we’ll look at things, like keeping them away from schools and churches.”"

Say who does Mr. Gray's statement remind you of?

OTB link http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/07/dc_bans_guns_with_red_tape_/

The problem I see is that the SC ruling only covered carrying in the home, so by requiring him to bring it in they can claim he is violating the law and charge him, and maybe get him on something that would disqualify him from being able to have a gun.

Regarding "To begin the registration process, the applicant must bring his or her revolver, unloaded and in a container, to the firearms registration office at police headquarters, 300 Indiana Ave. NW. The applicant must also bring two passport-sized photos, proof of D.C. residency, and a valid D.C. driver's license or a letter from a physician attesting that the applicant's vision is at least as good as that required for the license.":

Wouldn't that vision requirement being imposed by DC be in violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act too?,

We're not talking about concealed carriage here, just the right to own a property, which has to be unloaded and locked up if not being used for self defense according to DC 's current law. Does DC not allow blind people to own cars? That's a whole different thing than getting a driver's license for operating one on the street.

We need to get someone with an advanced case of Degenerative myopia, to attempt to register their Pardini .22 or .32 target pistol like this one:

The downside is its 5 rd magazines.

"If anyone has ever made mag."

It's even worse than that: They ban ANY semi-auto with a removable mag - even if a high capacity mag has NEVER been manufactured. I personally phoned and asked if they would register a Browning Buckmark, and the answer was 'no.'

NOTE also, that there is no amnesty for the ammo law. In DC it is a crime to have ammo in a caliber for which you don't have a registered gun. If you go in to register a gun and take ammo with you (if for instance, you carry it in the same case) - you can be arrested.

"Well if things worked like the founders thought, Lowe's and Home Depot would be selling out of pitch forks, tar and rails about now."

If things worked like the founders thought, you'd be able to buy full autos and grenade launchers at Lowe's and Home Depot. Pitchforks and the like might look good for the cameras (you know, like a lynch mob after Baron von Frankenstein), but would be quite obsolete.

This is why I told people I was unhappy with the ruling. "Individual right" Great, nice to see that you understand English. "No absolute bans" Wonderful.

It changed nothing else and essentially applied to DC only and here we see that DC has decided to not uphold the decision after all.

I do not want violent felons or the mentally ill to have access to guns, but I know that they will find a way to get them if they so desire. The law will only apply to those who choose to follow it and that is why I will not celebrate until all guns laws are off the book.

"If you go in to register a gun and take ammo with you (if for instance, you carry it in the same case) - you can be arrested."

That'd get you arrested in Tennessee as well. Not for unlawful possession of ammunition but for unlawful possession or carrying. Can't carry an unloaded firearm and ammunition in the same case.

For common folk in TN without handgun carry permits, the defense against unlawful possession or carrying is that the firearm is unloaded, not concealed on or about person and the ammunition is not in the immediate vicinity of either the person or the firearm. And for a bonus, an unloaded firearm cannot have ammunition in the chamber, cylinder, clip or magazine AND the clip or magazine cannot be in the immediate vicinity of the firearm.

We can only imagine what DC might require if TN, a shall issue state, has such onerous requirements for those wishing to transport their firearm.

So my advice is leave the ammunition at home or carry two locked containers.