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« College pro-2A groups expanding | Main | Amusing hoax and gullible media »

CCW bans in churches

Posted by David Hardy · 10 June 2008 11:20 AM

Many CCW permit systems forbid licensees to carry in certain locations -- bars, courthouses, etc.. A fair number of these have a prohibition on carry in churches. Jack Burton has some interesting thoughts on this, and principles of separation of church and state.

Basically: (1) what makes a church special in a way that, say a VFW hall is not? (2) The response has to be that a church is a holy nonprofit group's home, and the legislature judges that packing a gun in there would be an offense to the Almighty. Apart from being rather presumptuous (the Almighty may like guns, and who is a legislature to define his tastes) doesn't that sound a bit like an entanglement of church and state?

Thanks to reader Rick Schwartz for the tip...

· CCW licensing

9 Comments | Leave a comment

geekwitha.45 | June 10, 2008 11:51 AM | Reply

Like most victim disarmament zones, its basis is of limited-to-no rationality.

Peter | June 10, 2008 12:13 PM | Reply

The incident in Colorado Springs comes immediately to mind. An armed citizen, who happened to be armed officially at that service, stopped a crazed gunman in a church.

I do think it is appropriate for churches to be able to post their property as a gun free zone at their sole discretion, (although I wouldn't recommend it) but the government should not be telling churches how they should conduct their affairs. I would certainly consider this an infringement of the first amendment.

Paul Simer | June 10, 2008 12:14 PM | Reply

As the office manager for a Tennessee church, and someone who is lucky to have very rational and understanding bosses, I am very glad that TN doesn't have any silly restrictions on church carry.

Signed,
The Most Well-Armed Church Secretary in the County

Tom | June 10, 2008 12:37 PM | Reply

Have you ever watched an old western movie where men carried their revolvers on the hip to church? Just did'nt happen folks......But in todays world, carrying concealed is the only way to go.....Church or no church.

Bill | June 10, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply

Not only churches. In VA, you can't carry on the grounds of any elementary, middle or high school (there is an exception that allows you to be carrying concealed when you drop you kid off at school, but you have to stay in your car).

But you can carry into a daycare or nursery school if you so choose, unless of course, it's posted by the owner. I guess the state figures it's not a problem for somebody to bring a gun into a place full of 2, 3, and 4 year olds, but once you hit about 5 or 6 and go to kindergarten, all of a sudden guns are too dangerous to even have anywhere on the property.

And no concealed carry in any establishment that has a license to serve alcohol on-premises. Our illustrious gub'ner vetoed legislation that would have repealed that ban, but would have required the CHP holder to (1) notify a "designated employee" that he/she was packing heat and (2) not consume alcohol. The governor's reason for the veto? "Alcohol and guns don't mix." O.K., well the bill forbid the CHP holder from drinking!! And guess what? It's legal and has been legal for years to carry openly in a bar AND drink alcohol if you want! AND - best of all - a mere few days after vetoing that bill, the governor signed legislation allowing any Commonwealth's Attorney or Deputy Commonwealth's Attorney (many of whom are wet-behind-the-ears kids fresh out of law school - I know this because I know several of them) to carry concealed ANYWHERE in Virginia, including bars and restaurants, with no permit, no training, without telling anyone in the establishment, and with NO restriction on drinking. He continues to deny the bill allows them to drink, but he's simply wrong, and his advisors are wrong. It clearly does.

You can carry concealed in a liquor store, bank, movie theater, etc.

First Amendment or no, it doesn't make any kind of rational sense.

Bob | June 10, 2008 9:00 PM | Reply

Saint Peter carried a sword...

karrde | June 10, 2008 9:30 PM | Reply

Michigan's law contains such a restriction on carrying in "any building used for a religious meeting..." unless the person carrying has the "permission of the presiding minister."

Kind of strange, asking a pastor if you can bring a gun to church.

dlr | June 11, 2008 4:17 AM | Reply

I'm a Pastor and I encourage our folks to "carry". And we live in a State where it isn't legal to carry anywhere.

Windy Wilson | June 11, 2008 12:35 PM | Reply

So, if a church congregation meets at a VFW hall, is it a church during the services or is it still a VFW hall, and which laws apply?
Maybe all the churches need to be VFW halls (or something similar).

Hey-- absurd and irrational laws deserve creative work-arounds to defeat them!

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