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Never bring a bat to a gunfight, pt. 2
More detail here. The explanation of suicide by cop raises questions in my mind. If a person wants the officer to kill him, it's hardly wise to begin by nailing the officer over the head with a bat, likely knocking him out or killing him. Or to attack from behind. The comments in the previous thread did raise some interesting issues. Might it have been a plan to get hands on the officer's gun, and use it in a mass killing? Might the officer have ejected the magazine, knowing it would disable his gun due to the magazine safety? (At least on my 1911, the safety is nowhere near the mag release -- on the other hand, having been nailed over the head with a bat probably leaves you going on reflex rather than thought).
Doug in Colorado notes, in a comment blacked by the spam filter:
ukulkan, sorry, I can't buy it...the first blow, which left a couple of inch cut in the scalp to be stitched up, would have been about as likely to either kill or render unconscious the officer...not just rattle him. No high school kid can plan with that kind of precision where and how hard to hit him so as to shake him up but not knock him out. Heck, no adult could count on that kind of precise effect either.
...If he really wanted to commit suicide by cop, he could have produced a look-alike airsoft gun or a knife...not bothered attacking him from behind.
The family's reaction is, well, interesting. "He's the baby of our family, and they took him away," ""We just want to know what happened before that incident to see what made him do what police say he did."
"They" didn't take him away, and nothing "made him do" it. He tried to murder someone, and if his aim had been better by an inch or two, he would have succeeded. He was trying to finish the job when the victim got his backup gun clear.
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Ummm, and does this school usually have a probation officer on campus? Must be a Quaker and Amish community.
Was he planning to knock the officer out and take his gun for more mischief?
some kind of ill-conceived vendetta?
There may be something to the suicide by cop theory. The kid uses an improvised bat (whatever that is) and knocks the officer down with one blow. Anyone who has ever experienced something similar to this understands that your brain is addled for a few seconds. If the officer was dazed for a few seconds, why didn't this student finish the job? Even if the officer wasn't dazed, he managed to draw his primary weapon and eject the magazine and then reach down to his ankle draw his backup weapon and then shoot the student before the student managed to whack the officer again. I don't buy that the officer has superhuman speed. Whether or not the officer was dazed by the initial blow, a minimum of several seconds passed from the initial blow until the time the student was shot. The student should have had ample opportunity to get in a couple more blows -- but didn't. Instead, the student shouted obscenities and made threatening gestures. The student's behavior doesn't sound like someone trying to actually kill another.
Please note, I am not saying the officer did anything wrong. Based on the information available, the officer reasonably believed his life was in danger and acted appropriately.
And, my goodness, the student's sisters are idiots. Why didn't he use his baton or his tazer while lying on the ground? First, did he even have either one of those? Second, in a life or death situation, you go with the tool that is the most effective at stopping the attacker. I understand why the sisters are upset -- they lost their little brother; but catch a clue. Your baby brother was 6' tall and weighed 250 pounds. He was attacking someone with an improvised bat. That combination constitutes lethal force and justified a lethal response.
"Carrizales's family said the officer didn't have to shoot the teen."
I couldn't agree more. The officer could have talked calmly to him and reasoned with him. Offered him a hug or some cookies. Maybe read him some poetry. He didn't HAVE to shoot the poor baby.
Of course, the big "kid" (6 foot plus, 250 lbs?) didn't HAVE to smack a cop from behind with a club, either.
Another case of ignorant folks. He could have used his "baton" or Tazer? Do we know whether he was issued either of those? And how to you use your baton against a 6-foot-plus tall, 250-pound attacker who is standing over you with a club raised over his head, while you're lying flat on your back, bleeding and dazed from him bashing you on the noggin? Smack his ankle?
I'm sure the people who allegedly passed for this kids "parents" are blameless in all this. The teachers should have recognized... the school guidance counselor should have... the police should have... they didn't have to take away my baby! Well maybe YOU should have...
There just isn't enough information here to understand what happened. I can't help but wonder if there was some exchange of words that led to this escalation of force.
Yeah, that thought came to me last night...somebody 6 foot plus, 250 pounds, with a baseball bat, is a serious threat...suicide by cop didn't ring true at all, not when you blindside the officer with what could easily have been lethal force from ambush...
Was he trying to get himself into a gang, build a reputation as the baddest sophomore in the town? The articles I've seen said there was no known previous grudge between him and the officer.
When somebody man-sized has flattened you with a club and is coming back for more, I'd say there's reasonable cause to believe you're faced with a lethal threat, whatever his momma might say...sure he was always in the front row of the choir and trying out for First Altarboy until this happened...?
Not so much.