VA governor Kaine on gun laws
I hope the DC Examiner got the story wrong, but it claims the Gov. is "troubled that Virginia law allows any individual to stockpile ammunition with no way for authorities to monitor the cache," because Cho had 377 rounds of ammo.
377 rounds? With a Thompson, that's gone in under half an hour.
Update: reader William Taggart points out that, according to this news story, 15 guns is "an arsenal of weapons."
Reminds me of a scene in Oliver Stone's "JFK", when Joe Pesci is complaining because of a government raid on his paramilitary training camp. "And they took 10,000 rounds of ammo." I'm sure, to non-gunnies, that sounds like a lot. But if you were training 110 guys with AR-15s, that would be about 3 magazines each. Gee, that's not so much after all.
Posted by: Brerarnold at May 23, 2007 11:30 AM
jeez. I usually have at least 1000 rounds of 7.62x39 around, not to mention hundreds of rounds of .22, a bunch of 7.62x54, .380, .30-06, 12Ga, 20Ga...
In fact, I try to buy my ammo by the case of 500-1000, when I can. 377?
Posted by: Greg Morris at May 23, 2007 11:32 AM
Yep - another one who buys ammo by the case. Since I happen to live near enough to a Cabela's to pick things up it's cheap to get their bulk ammo. 300 rounds if I'm trying something out, 1,200 when I find one my gun likes (like they're 9mm).
And .22 I like to buy by the case (of bricks). Let's see, 1,000 rds / brick and 10 bricks / case - there's your 10,000 rounds right there.
Heck, I'm pretty sure I've headed out to range sessions with more than 370 rounds in my bag - and that's ignoring the brick or two of .22. Wonder if that's why the darn thing always feels so heavy?
Posted by: KCSteve at May 23, 2007 11:49 AM
Wow that is a foolish article. I hit the range about once a week, and there I usally burn through between 120 and 300 rounds. With that logic its like calling somebody with two boxes of cerial "Well stocked". I'm not even planning for an apocalypse or anything....I just don't want to go to the store EVERY time I go to the range, and I want to pay bulk prices....
Posted by: Weer'd Beard at May 23, 2007 12:27 PM
"Half an hour?" I think that you might have meant "half a minute", especially with a 600 RPM Thompson.
Posted by: andrew at May 23, 2007 01:49 PM
I routinely have about 5000-7000 rounds onhand for all of my guns. And I definitely qualify with possessing a so-called "arsenal". My ammo is stored safely in ammo cans. I don't call it a "cache". I shoot a lot of surplus rifles with uncertain ammo availability so I tend to buy in bulk when I do.
This isn't a big deal to most gun owners. Just in .22LR and 7.62x54R I have over 4000 rounds. .223 another 700, 7.62x39 around 800, .303 British around 250 and so on. All safely stored and none of Gov. Kaine's business (or Martin O'Malley's here in Maryland).
Posted by: Matt at May 23, 2007 02:50 PM
377 rounds? Jeez, I have that in my sofa cushions.
I'm the CEO of a defense-oriented contractor. I buy ammunition by the pallet for work (and have we have way more than 15 'guns').
In my private life I have two grown sons that enjoy shooting with their Dad. 15 'guns' is 5 'guns' apiece in my safe (shotgun, 3 rifles and a pistol, for example). I also buy ammunition by the case and tend to buy multiple cases so as to not run short (my boys will burn up a 1000 rds of .223 like it grew on a tree). Last year my boys and I took a carbine course - 1500 rounds or .223 each and 500 rounds of pistol ammo each. I try to keep that much on hand (at least) in .223, .308, .30'06, 9mm, .38 Super, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP for each of us. .22 LR is a whole 'nother story!
An arsenal is an arms depot (historically either an 'arsenal of deposit' or an 'arsenal of construction'), not an arms collection.
Posted by: Major Mike at May 23, 2007 03:08 PM
And most of that half-hour is taken reloading the drum magazine.
Posted by: Thirdpower at May 23, 2007 03:53 PM
I am sure Kaine said that. He is a gun-control liberal by nature. While mayor of Richmond, he was caught using taxpayer money to bus anti-gun rights protesters to the "Million Mom March".
He is merely held in check by his (correct) perception of the pro-gun rights attitudes in the Virginia electorate. If he feels the time is right to move the ball towards gun control, he will try.
Posted by: RSweeney at May 23, 2007 05:15 PM
This is why pro-gun people don't trust the dems on gun control. Kaine campaigned on how he had changed his stripes and was "2a friendly". Now he talks about limiting ammo amounts to levels below what I shoot in one session? As others have posted, anyone that participates in shooting as a sport finds numbers like 377 rounds laughably small.
I particularly like: "He also said college presidents and police chiefs have told him that allowing students and faculty to carry weapons on campus “would be a disaster.”" Yeah, there's a shock. My question to them would be, how do you know that? Where is your evidence?
Posted by: Robin at May 24, 2007 08:13 AM
"Arsenal" is the plural form of "gun."
Posted by: BrianT at May 24, 2007 11:05 AM
I own guns in 17 different calibers. As pointed out above I buy by the case because it is cheaper. 440 round can of 7.62x54, 2200 round can of 9x18, and a couple of bricks of 500 .22 rounds and it can sound like a lot, but it isn't.
With my wife and father-in-law with me an hour at the range can use up 400-500 rounds without working hard.
Posted by: Ron W at May 24, 2007 12:00 PM
I remember being a bit surprised to learn that I had more ammo at home than the branch davidians at waco. Now, nothing surprises me anymore...
Posted by: Mark at May 26, 2007 10:56 PM
The day may come when we must secure the means of resistance to tyrants and defense of the Constitution below ground until the day arrives which requires us to dig them up.
Some of the people who seem to gravitate towards public office show signs of megalomania and other forms of mental illness and personality disorders. They seem to believe that we work for them, rather than the other way around.
One thing to remember about the initial Federal attack upon the Branch Davidians is that the ATF killed a mother dog, her puppies, and a four-year-old boy with their first volley. After riddling a church with bullets, the ATF had the poor judgement to run out of ammunition, and then found themselves forced to retreat with their dead and wounded with their hands raised. I think it fortuitous that the Branch Davidians were sincere Christians. The Davidians extended Christian charity and mercy to the ammunitionless Federal agents, despite the fact that these very same men and women had killed and wounded a large number of the Branch Davidians, including women and children.
I daresay that if my Marine Corps rifle company had found themselves in the Branch Davidians' shoes on that field of battle, we would have come swarming out of that bullet-riddled church and killed every single enemy combatant, whether they possessed ammunition or not. The ATF agents must have had angels riding on their shoulders to have survived such a gigantic tactical error. It was a tragic story with a tragic end. Former President Bill Clinton and former Attorney General Janet Reno made a lot of terrible mistakes for which they must someday answer, and so did David Koresh.
And so, probably, have I. But lacking an adequate supply of ammunition is not going to be one of the errors for which the Lord may hold me accountable.
Posted by: Old Marine at June 7, 2008 11:55 PM