Bad ruling out of PA
PA Gun Blog has the news. A judicial decision that essentially nullifies reciprocity there.
OK, call me dense----I don't see how this decision does anything except preventing Pennsylvanians from carrying in PA using an out-of-state permit(?). If this is indeed the case, it does not seem unreasonable to me
Posted by: Jeff at October 24, 2013 11:07 AM
Yes this ruling is not bad.
The PA AG has been running around since she was elected (with Bloomberg campaign backing) rewriting PA reciprocity agreements with other states to cut out recognition for non-resident permits to deal with this exact issue - PA residents who can't get PA carry permits and who rely on other state permits to carry in their home state of PA.
The AG's rewriting of reciprocity permits had the additional effect of cutting carry from people who have FL permits and live in NY and NJ, since NY and NJ residents aren't residents of FL.
If you live in PA and you can't get a permit under PA's permissive system, it would be ridiculous to think you could just get a FL permit and carry under that in your home state of PA. That's what the plaintiff was arguing in this case, and that argument should fail.
All of this would be resolved to everyone's satisfaction by shifting to a system akin to drivers licenses, where all states issue permits and all states are obliged to give full faith and credit to other states' permits for nonresidents visiting the state.
Posted by: Zman at October 24, 2013 12:34 PM
You are both so ignorant: the problem is that Philadelphia plays games with license issuance (and revocation) so that "shall issue" becomes "may issue" for many otherwise qualified applicants.
Rather than paying thousands for an attorney to fight for years in a rigged, dysfunctional and politicized court system (and with no guarantee of success), people lawfully obtain out of state licenses and keep their money in their own pockets.
This terrible decision removes a small check on the Phila. PD; I expect that they will now go hog wild with wrongful denials!
Posted by: DLaden at October 24, 2013 02:51 PM
This is a PA problem that they have to fix in PA.
It makes no sense to complain that PA doesn't let PA residents carry under FL licenses in PA.
It's like if NJ residents complained they can't carry on their FL permits in NJ. The problem in that case is the same - NJ won't issue them, not that NJ won't recognize FL permits.
Posted by: Zman at October 24, 2013 09:32 PM
I wish people would get past the "full faith and credit" argument with respect to driver's licenses. The state's do not recognize out of state driver's licenses due to full faith and credit. Each state has reciprocity with each other state by statute. Take a look at Virginia for example, V.C.A § 46.2-307: "A nonresident over the age of sixteen years and three months who has been duly licensed as a driver under a law requiring the licensing of drivers in his home state or country and who has in his immediate possession a driver's license issued to him in his home state or country shall be permitted, without a Virginia license, to drive a motor vehicle on the highways of the Commonwealth."
Posted by: Cliff at October 25, 2013 11:06 AM
The appellant was dealing with State College and Centre County, not the City of Philadelphia, so the introduction of that city's practices is a red herring. Furthermore, the appellant had a New Hampshire non-resident permit as opposed to one from Va or Fl. NH requires you to have a permit from your state of residence in order to get a non-resident NH permit. Technically, then, the appellant's NH permit became invalid when his PA permit was not renewed.
Posted by: skidmark at October 26, 2013 02:26 AM
Correction to my earlier post - the appeallant's PA permit was revoked.
Posted by: skidmark at October 26, 2013 02:28 AM
Zman et. al.: anticipating the Philadelphia problem with St. Louis and possibly Kansas City, Missouri's law explicitly allows residents to use any US locality's concealed carry permit. So the idea of letting a resident use a non-resident permit inside his home state is not automatically ridiculous, it depends on the law.
Posted by: Harold at October 26, 2013 12:22 PM