Study of killers of LEOS
Right here. Tho I am a bit suspicious of the claim that they frequently practice with weapons (80% practicing, average 23 times a year). A big city gang banger is going to be hard put to find open countryside in which to shoot. I note they only studied 43 offenders, so perhaps the results should be taken with a bit of salt.
I am really not surprised, there is an indoor range in Cincinnati & you see guys coming in wearing gang colors, & shooting just like they do in the movies
Posted by: The Duck at August 19, 2008 12:30 PM
Cheapest, easiest and best practice is with an unloaded weapon. From the holster work on sight picture, sight alignment, focus on the front sight and press. Fifteen minutes a day and you can improve at a very rapid rate.
Posted by: Jim D. at August 19, 2008 12:59 PM
I agree with the need for some salt, but there is a lot of shooting in the inner-city. Not all that shooting is always directed at intended victims. These folks are just finding deserted alleys or buildings, blasting away at cans, bottles, and bricks for a few minutes, then high-tailing it before the police arrive.
These people have no qualms about shooting up occupied homes and vehicles, and they certainly don't worry themselves about finding safe places to practice shooting.
Posted by: Carl in Chicago at August 19, 2008 01:11 PM
...40% of the offenders had some type of formal firearms training, primarily from the military. More than 80% “regularly practiced with handguns...
but then goes on to say that they claim their shooting style "W]e’re not working with no marksmanship….We just putting it in your direction, you know….It don’t matter…as long as it’s gonna hit you..."
I call BS,as it's the exact reverse of regualr practice
Posted by: Lowell at August 19, 2008 01:12 PM
An empty warehouse/factory in a noisy industrial district is a great place to practice.
Posted by: Madrocketscientist at August 19, 2008 01:39 PM
"...a just-published, 5-year study by the FBI."
Might anyone know where I might obtain a copy of this just published, 5-year FBI study?
I prefer to go to the source.
Posted by: Carl in Chicago at August 19, 2008 05:22 PM
I agree with Duck, I see bangers at my local indoor range (Richmond,VA) as well. They shoot with the gun parallel to the ground "gangsta style" and miss the paper at 10 feet. They are also tough on the left wall of the range where it seems a lot of their second and later rounds impact.
I typically retire to the armored glass viewing area to enjoy the show until they leave.
Some of the state police who shoot there are pretty good, the worse (next to bangers) are the city deputies, who are often dangerously bad.
Posted by: RSweeney at August 19, 2008 07:18 PM
Well, a different study showed that "naive" shooters are surprisingly accurate at gunfight ranges and there seems to be a natural aptitude that causes quick improvement. So that may have something to do with the gang-banger skills
"He cited one small female who produced a gun from behind her leg and delivered 3 head shots from 3 yards in less than 1.5 seconds. "And she had never held a gun before," Avery said. "
The source of the FBI study article can be found here:
Posted by: JKB at August 19, 2008 10:27 PM
calguns.com had it in PDF I got my copy there in april of 07
Posted by: The Duck at August 20, 2008 06:30 AM
This excerpt is particularly notable: "Predominately handguns were used in the assaults on officers and all but one were obtained illegally, usually in street transactions or in thefts. In contrast to media myth, none of the firearms in the study was obtained from gun shows."
Wonder if the MSM will report that nugget of truth...
Posted by: Scott at August 20, 2008 09:23 AM
There's another factor you're all missing: gang-bangers die off quite regularly. The ones who can't shoot, hesitate or keep their heads down are going to get killed off. So you have a herd-thinning effect that you normally don't get in civilized society.
Posted by: ben at August 20, 2008 06:19 PM
It's not a study of criminals in general, nor even of the ones who tried to kill cops; it's a study of the ones who succeeded in killing cops.
For that reason, there's a selection bias (as in "natural selection", ha ha) in favor of the ones who can hit what they aim at. The (probable) majority who don't bother aiming at all are likely much better represented in studies of people who got themselves killed by cops.
What the study indicates is that people who win gunfights tend to have gone to the trouble of learning to shoot well. I'm not sure that's news.
Posted by: Midget Launcher at August 21, 2008 09:32 AM
one point brought up in the study that officers did not want to use deadly force if another option was availible, but what they did not say is that if a officer uses deadly force as a first responce (when he should), he will be raked over the coals by the news media, liberal police chiefs, and in the courts. the mind set pushed on officers is to think first before shooting, and as one of the thugs said "if you hesitate you are dead" is the truth in any deadly encounter. so what is needed is a different mind set for training of officers and their leaders to back them up after a shooting instead of throwing them to the wolfs.
Posted by: david at August 23, 2008 11:17 PM