« California bans .22 rimfire use in condor areas | Main | Church gunman killed himself, after heroine scored multiple hits »
Gun free zone liability act
Alan Korwin reports that bills have been introduced in AZ and GA to make entities that declare "gun free zones" liable for any harm caused by impairment of self-defense.
Update: I'm informed the GA bill is from 2003; there is no such bill pending there now.
Via Instapundit, who has in the past suggested you could get the same result under common law. It might be clearer now -- I mean, every mass killing I can remember occurred either in a gun free zone, or a place where the killer would expect no one to be armed (an Amish schoolhouse, a church -- the killer in the Colorado cases may have *thought* churches were gun-free in that state). And every mass killing that was stopped short was stopped by armed civilians, not by LE.
Also via Instapundit, SayUncle has an impressive list of armed civilians vs. mass killers.
· Self defense ~ · State legislation
Comments
Wasn't the utah shooting (in a gun-free mall) stopped by an off-duty cop?
Thats not exactly a civilian.
However these laws are LONG overdue.
Posted by: Flighterdoc at December 11, 2007 10:33 AM
Police are civilians.
Posted by: mariner at December 11, 2007 10:39 AM
Interersting
When I tried to get this as part of the Michigan CPL law I was told I was nuts.
Sounded like a good idea then and sounds even better now.
I think that a very good common law neg case could do the same withthe correct factsjudgers and jury members.
Posted by: David McCleary at December 11, 2007 12:27 PM
Guns don't kill people, politicians do!
Posted by: Spider at December 11, 2007 12:33 PM
I don't know if Reynolds had it or not...but someone posted the reverse idea: that a mall that posted "friendly to CCW" signs, or some such, would be shielded from having to pay damages to anyone harmed by a CCW holder stopping a crime in progress.
Think positive, not negative!
Posted by: karrde at December 11, 2007 03:06 PM
We had such a law proposed in IL in 2005.
http://ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=477&GAID=8&DocTypeID=HB&LegId=14844&SessionID=50&GA=94
Naturally killed in committee as it would pretty much bankrupt the State of IL and City of Chicago!
Posted by: dwlawson at December 11, 2007 04:06 PM
It seems that Colorado law doesn't explicitly prohibit carrying hardly anywhere (or at least I can't find the pertinent law):
http://cbi.state.co.us/ccw/Statutes/18-12-214.asp
Churches are not exempt locations. The murderer should have checked.
Posted by: Flighterdoc at December 11, 2007 05:08 PM
Interesting...if companies were held liable for failure to allow people to defend themselves by actively denying them that ability, I would suspect that many would revise their policies.
This certainly is an interesting way to combat the gun-free-zone.
Posted by: Pete S. at December 12, 2007 01:13 AM
Until these laws get enacted, how about creating some sort of database of what establishments are endangering us and which ones don't? I already know that Costco and Fry's Electronics prohibit CCW without providing any actual security, while WalMart, Sam's Club, Cabela's and Sportsman's Warehouse do allow CCW, but it would be nice to have a resource that would tell me BEFORE I arrive at the front door (or allow my family to go without me).
Or would that effort just attract a lawsuit?
Posted by: Hartley at December 12, 2007 10:46 AM
Hartley
Check for a pro-ccw site for your state - most of them have lists of who's posted.
The name will probably be some variation of (state)(carry)
Here are a few I know:
http://www.missouricarry.com
http://www.ksccw.com
http://www.iowacarry.com
http://www.coloradocarry.com (I think)
Posted by: KCSteve at December 12, 2007 11:39 AM
Oleg Volk has the perfect sign for the times:
http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/22932-1/sign_002.jpg
Take a look.
Posted by: cargosquid at December 13, 2007 08:05 AM
Cabela's and Sportsmen's Warehouse don't just allow CCW, their rule is "whatever is legal in the state is legal here", meaning that they explicitly allow Open Carry (as long as you're not planning to unholster your pistol for any reason.)
The Walmart/Sam's Club issue is almost the same, with more local variation due to local managers/asst managers/greeters.
For lots of ongoing discussion on this subject, see OpenCarry.org.
Posted by: Kirk Parker at December 13, 2007 10:56 AM